Name: Building Ecommerce Community
Uploaded: 2026-03-31T18:16:10.791Z
Duration: 1 h 28 s
Description: Building Ecommerce Community

Transcript for "Building Ecommerce Community": Hey, everybody. Welcome. We're just gonna give everyone a couple minutes to jump in. If you want to introduce yourself in the chat, maybe say where you're coming from, I'll give an example. Hey. I'm Brian, and I am signing in from California today. And we're super excited for this panel. What we wanted to do is get a bunch of people together to talk about community. I think community is a big part of what makes WordPress and WooCommerce special, and we really wanted to just have a conversation about how you can build community. There's some, you know, commercial aspects to building a community. It's generally good for business. It's generally good for networking. It's generally good for, growing the kind of audience size that you have if you're selling plugins or you're trying to, you know, build websites for agencies. But underneath it all, a real community is built on just actually making friends with people. It's not a transactional thing. It's something that you do, because it's just a healthy place to be, and it's really good to learn from each other, share information, have friends. And so whether you're thinking about community as something that you go and visit online and you, you know, go to online meetups or join Slack groups or even engage on social media, versus there's also real life conferences, we have Checkout Summit coming up pretty soon in the next month, which is a WooCommerce specific conference happening in Italy, and then there's also WorkCamp Asia this month as well and WorkCamp Europe coming pretty quickly after that. So there's a lot of really good chances to meet in person. There's also a lot of really good chances to meet online. I just spent last maybe a week ago, with the Costa Rica WooCommerce community in San Jose, and it was such a great opportunity to just hear from people that were doing things with WordPress and WooCommerce. They were just, sharing their experiences. We got to learn from each other. We got to take pictures together. So, I'm really excited to talk about ecommerce community today. I'm gonna start off with a quick introduction. And today, have really good panelists. I'm really excited about this group of people that we have today. They're all some of my favorite people in the WordPress and ecommerce space, so, I feel really fortunate to be introducing. Number one, we have Amber Hines who runs Equalize Digital. You might know Equalize Digital, for their plug in accessibility checker. It's they're all Amber also runs the WP Accessibility Meetup. You contribute to WP Accessibility Day as well. And so if you're in any sort of community, you've probably know Amber. You've probably met her. You've probably, communicate with her, but she's, a huge part of the WordPress community. Next, we have Mary Hubbard, the executive director of wordpress.org and a coworker of ours at Automattic. Mary comes from a really big background in tech generally, you know, eBay, Walmart, TikTok, but also a really big background in WordPress, WooCommerce, and wordpress.com. And so Mary has really just a amazing amount of experience and is really focused this year at wordpress.org on community and meetup culture. And so we're excited to have Mary. And finally, I'll just introduce Raquel, who you probably know from Wonderland Curious. You probably know from the Phoenix Meetup, WorkCamp Phoenix, PressConf, Divvy Meetup Group, the Phoenix work WooCommerce Meetup Group, and so many other places. And so these are three people that really know a lot about building community. They know a lot about, the like, our specific, very unique open source WordPress WooCommerce community, and I'm really just excited to hear what they have to say today. And then I'm just gonna kick it over to my colleague, Shani. And, Shani, I'll let you introduce yourself, and then you can take it away for our panel discussion. And, along the way, if you have questions, throw them in the chat. If you wanna put something in the q and a, you can definitely do that. I think that we actually have the ability to do things like show people's message on the screen. So we have greetings from Nicaragua, greetings from Indonesia, greetings from Portland. So there's a lots of cool features we can do here. So feel free to use the chat as much as you want. Use the q and a, which at the end, we'll go through all the questions in the q and a. So feel free to start stockpiling q and a questions. But, yeah, let me kick it over to you, Shani. Hello. Thanks so much for joining us, everybody. I'm really excited for this panel because I've been very much in community mode as a developer advocate through commerce. I've been with Wu for three, almost four years. And so I really if you've read anything from a release post to office hours in Slack, maybe you've run into me at one of the word camps, replying to blog comments, just, you know, generally here to listen if you just need a therapeutic ear when it comes to development. I did have I I worked as a software developer and customer support before that. So I think this it really kind of led up to being a developer advocate and kind of dealing with all things developer. And so, yeah, we when we talked about our first live event this year, since we had been so involved in community, making sure our meetup program was being attended to and just kind of looking at all the different events, Checkout Summit coming up, press conference, all the word camps. There was just a huge amount of opportunity, I think, to talk about what community means to us. I think post pandemic, we really have struggled a little bit to get back on our feet in terms of that. And so I really would love this for this to be a beacon and to be an opportunity for us all to really show what works about community and also maybe even discuss what what doesn't and what needs to change given in this year of our AI overlords 2026. So with that, I'll pass it back over to Brian so he can introduce himself, and then we'll get started. Thanks, Johnny. I realized after as you started talking, I did not introduce myself. I'm Brian Cords. I'm also a developer advocate at WooCommerce. So, you probably see us in the community Slack, on social media. Just wanna give a quick pitch to developer.woo.com because that's where you can do things like sign up for the newsletter, find out about new releases, join the community Slack. You can find all of our social media, YouTube, all that sort of stuff. So that's kind of, like, the central place for that, and I'm just really looking forward to this conversation. So I'm gonna take the slides off the screen so we can see people's faces a little bit clearer. And, Shani, I'll let you get started. Awesome. Okay. So Mary, Raquel, Amber, if you wanna raise your hand or just jump in, I say go for it. I think you guys all have a lot of interesting perspective to bring, And so I think these questions can really apply to anyone at any time. So and, Brian, I'll let you kind of manage that as well. So I think the first question regarding community is why show up at all? What makes a meetup or an event worth leaving your desk beyond, you know, swag and drinks, which we love? Maybe a a really enticing snack. And what are the concrete outcomes that people have actually gotten from attending? So I love each of your perspectives. So if you wanna hop on and let us know. Sure. I'm happy to go first. I would say I look at events in the WordPress or WooCommerce space in kind of two different lenses, I guess. So in the very beginning, when I first started attending meetups, it was very much because I wanted to learn. And that was I was that was how I learned about Git. That was how I learned about, you know, don't go into the theme file editor and edit your functions dot PHP on your WordPress site. Right? What and then what do you do when you do that? How do fix it? Like, all the all the, like, learning things. And even now, twenty plus years later, like, I do still I love how much I am able to still learn when I go to these events or even the ones that I host because we work really hard to bring in speakers from all over the world, all of these different perspectives. Like, I am constantly learning. And then the other lens where I really have seen value is that from a business perspective, growing a community can be very beneficial. Not like I mean, it is in some ways like marketing, but it is also just a way to make people aware of who you are and what you're doing. And if you provide value back, so if you become a leader in that community or create a space that other people can learn and and get value from, then they start to see you as, like, an expert and someone who is worth following. And so from a business perspective, you can also see benefits from that as well. I think Amber hits it right out the gate. Like, people people wanna focus on outcomes. So they're they're there for three reasons. You know, you learn something. You meet people, you connect, maybe it might change the trajectory, and also that they want belonging. They wanna belong. I think when I attend any type of show or any type of community building, I actually don't think that people show up for content. They show up for that connection, especially within WordPress. Raquel taught me that at presscom. I think the first one of the the the first nonspecific event I had gone to, but content gives them the reason to stay. And so the content is important, but just as much as that connection, and that is what builds the community itself. Yeah. It's interesting. I first started attending meetups in 2014, I think maybe 2013, and it was for Amber's point of marketing, the agency that I had founded. We were like, well, let's just get involved, and I'll do it because I didn't know it at the time, but I love people. And I quickly quickly was like, I I like collecting relationships, trusted relationships because then in the future, I wanna do business with those trusted relationships. So that's where I think the win win comes in is that at least you're gaining trusted relationships and connections, and at best you get to work with these people that you trust. And everyone wants to work with people that they trust and, in fact, like. And, like, that's what community is so important in building the community is because people wanna do good work with good people, and they wanna have fun doing it. And that's what brings people back. It's that connection. It's that learning. It's continuing this cycle. And the smaller the smaller events can really foster that type of community. I think the smaller events, are much more impactful than the large ones because the small ones keep that sense of community and keep that repetition rather than a thousand people once. Right? And Amber says, just like Amber said at the very beginning, when you're there and you're learning and you're hands on, that makes people want to come back. And we keep it simple, Mhmm. stupidly simple. We bring people back, small groups, and can can promote up to larger groups. That's so I I wanna seize on something that you said in terms of not be it not being for the content necessarily. And that's something so interesting because I think from when you're, you know, creating a meetup or an event or a conference, you're really hyper focusing on what is the content that's gonna draw somebody in. So I think that's a really interesting, maybe, like, secret sauce perspective. How would you say you can is is that something that you would kind of back up into? So, you know, if you're deciding what the event is going to be about, maybe determine who who is attending, and then back content up into that. I think it depends on what event, yeah, what type of event you're showing or what type of event you're presenting. There's a space for it all. yeah. I would I would draw a line here. There's a very different perspective on an in person event, like a word camp or a conference than virtual events. So I have organized WordCamps and in person events. I've attended them. I have also or what the main things that I organize now are all virtual. So the WordPress accessibility meetup, it's part of the meetup program, but it was one of it was actually the first to get approved to be a 100% virtual. We do not have a city based location at all. We're on Zoom, so people can join from anywhere. And and then the WordPress accessibility day nonprofit is the same thing. It is a virtual conference that has no in person location. When I go to WordCamps, I'll be totally honest, Very frequently, the only talk I attend is mine. Yeah. Every once in a while, I attend a talk of a friend. Or if there's accessibility talks, I'll go to those because it's an interest area, and I like to hear if it's someone I don't know. I love to be like, oh, this is a new person, and maybe then I can invite them to come speak at my meetup because I'm always trying to find more speakers for my meetup. Because our goal as organizers of that meetup is that we don't speak or we speak very minimally. But and so in that sense, like, there's a lot more that you get in person because you get those going out to dinner with people, going out to drinks with people, standing in the sponsor hall and talking to people. But if you are running virtual events and building a virtual community, content is vital. Like, Mhmm. it's not second fiddle because people show up for content. And we have seen very specific our meetup, I think it's gonna be I think it's about five years old. And we have figured out very specific patterns about what will get 30 people to show up live versus what will get over 200 people to show up live. And so the content really does matter if you're doing virtual events. So I think you kind of have to figure out what approach you're taking. You can't just blanketly say the content doesn't matter. So when you think about content mattering for an event, what about community holistically? Like, when you think about the community for, an all all digital or an all nonlocation community, what would be some of your your ideas around, fostering a community in that environment? So one of the things that we did after some feedback was we started a Facebook group. We debated a lot. Like, should it be on Facebook or should it be Discord or should it be Slack or, like, what should it be? But a lot of people were like, well, we're already on Facebook, so it's easier to just be another group. So that way people could connect in between. And I think that has helped a little bit. A big thing when people come in in the beginning, we'll always have a little bit of time when we're letting people in, and we always do the same thing Brian just said, which is introduce yourself in the chat. We always ask people to share where they're from, share how they use WordPress or what they know about accessibility, and then we'll actually read those out. And and over time, like, you start to recognize the same name. So, of course, if you can be like, oh, it's so good to see Jean again from New Jersey. Right? Like, something like that, then I think that helps to create this sense of I'm not just an anonymous person joining a webinar. Like, they care about me. They care that I've come. So I think that's a way that we've tried to build virtual community. The the WordPress accessibility day does have a Slack, And occasionally, people will post in there for other things, but we haven't found that says active because people have to choose to go there. Versus the Facebook, it's like, if they're on it for something else and then they see the group. What do you do, Raquel? yeah. I was gonna say, because also, I would love to ask in terms of creating, like, a healthy ecommerce community specifically, like, what is different what differentiates the WooCommerce world from the regular WordPress world and how because it broadens the perspective. Right? So how are you actually encompassing, especially for in person events? Raquel, I know you're literally the business of events. So I'm definitely interested to hear your take on that as well. Yeah, well it is funny because I do WordPress meetups, do WooCommerce meetups, I've done Divi meetups, and they all ran the gamut of in person and virtual and hybrid. And, I mean, we were all in person at first. Right? And if there was any virtual aspect, it was like bringing in a remote speaker, you know, and and it worked really well. But then when the pandemic hit, you know, we had to be virtual. That was such a pivot. And I did notice a 100%. I feel like in person, content is second. Virtual content is king. Like, there's no like, why show up if there's no content? And but we on all of the teams, so when it comes to the WordPress team, the Woo team, and the I I'm no longer with Elegant Things, but even for Divvy, it was everything was trying to get back to in person because I really do think that's where, like, the you could really change lives. And I I know it's like it I took a jump there, but that is really what I'm all about is is how we actually affect each other. That's not to say there's not a place for virtual, but for us, we wanted to see that hype come back. And so when I was with Elegant Themes and Divvy, we could only once we pivoted to virtual, it was like pulling teeth to get people to come to in person. I could not believe how much it became a crutch in a way, like virtual meetups. And and then it was stressing people out because content is king, and then you're like, they couldn't always come up with a good, presenter or or content. And then they were convinced, and I'm not sure if you've seen this, Amber, too, that that none of their people wanted to go to in person. And but they're part of that is because the people who go to in person, virtual meetups don't wanna go to in person meetups, and the people who go to in person meetups don't wanna go to virtual meetups. So it was such a like a fun, and I say that now in hindsight because back then it was not fun. But, Woo and WordPress, we really like hunkered down on, no. We wanna be in person. And I will say that one of the things that I think makes it so successful so successful is having a team. Like, not just one person trying to run the show, and this is what I've given advice to everybody who's ever running a meetup is, like, get a team. And when those that team is cohesive and bonus friends, it trickles down. And then the people who do show up to your events, they wanna be a part of it because that's contagious. Right? When you see that there's this, like, this, like, chemistry between this, like, set this team up there and they're they're all friends, then, oh, man. Like, you got a winning a winning recipe even if you have lulls and you're not able to, like, pull in the same numbers they used to pull, which I would say, full disclosure is what I'm seeing right now with WordPress, which I know is what we're seeing kind of all over the board. But we're still having our in person meetups. In our team, we are actual friends. We hang out with each other. We, like we we genuinely love each other, and so it keeps it going. And we're able to, like, produce content just off of, like, our, you know, our our brain trust, so to speak. I kinda went all over the place, but I think I did give an overall of, like, the virtual versus in person and the different types, Woo, WordPress, all that. Definitely. And and, Mary, actually, I feel like that's a good p piggyback into WordPress and the open source community kind of as a as a broader perspective. You know, we've mentioned kind of the the ebbs and flows. So I guess how do you see sustainability in events? And I'd love everybody's perspective on how do you get people to come back. Yeah. You know, I think earlier this year when I was talking about I'm sorry. My daughter's crawling on the floor right here next to me. I think she's trying to do a surprise attack. Right. But yeah. Really. I think in in general, the year of the meetup is really important. And the reason see? And the reason being is because I think that what I was referring to earlier about how it's smaller, smaller doesn't necessarily always better. But but if we see large large meetups or, like, large events starting to decline, we need to go back into the community and reinvigorate it in a different way. And I think a big piece is, like, I agree that it's it is about connection, but when you're at these larger events, like, let's not network. Let's help. And a lot of the feedback we've received around meetups themselves is is they become more social. And so when they become more social, it actually can feel somewhat exclusionary. So, like, know anybody. There is a resistance to actually attend. It's like, oh, I don't wanna show up alone. There could be insecurity that that hits. And then now, like Amber was referring to, content does matter. What are you presenting? What are you sharing? How can we learn together or build cool stuff? Right? And then that that consistency. I think with WordPress and the ecosystem of WordPress, we have a a growing number of people who've been here for a very long time, and they are they know each other and they're friends. And so when I think about how we can reinvigorate something like this, it's let's bring more people in at a different in a different area, and, actually, let's focus on things that are hot. So, like, when we think about AI and how everybody feels about AI or the content around AI, what is AI doing and how it's applicable back into WordPress or WooCommerce, it's really more of a hook. Right? It's a hook. So, like, when we think, I wanna teach people AI, but I want the playground to be within WordPress, and this is what I'm going to teach, and I can attract more, and I can humanize people. It is about that connection. Right? And and when a community has gotten so large and people come into it, how do you connect with others quickly, build that trust, and then start to start to form that build. Let's do cool things. Let's do great things together. And that's where we're at. And that's a lot of been has been a lot of my effort. If you don't mind me sharing something, I'd love to share something that opened my eyes and actually built this, like, this whole strategy of what we're doing around education was actually a conversation I had with at PressConf. where we were we were having we were we were just sitting around, and like she said, she was with all of her friends. I was I was there alone, I sat down with her. And we were talking about WordPress and the declining numbers in PressConf and where PressConf fits into, the ecosystem of the shows. And, she had said, you know, it's interesting because when it comes to WordPress, it's an identity into so many people. It's beyond just the community. It's beyond just the products that we build. It is our identity. And so when we come to these types of events, we're bringing our identity with us, and then we need to understand what our next move is. She related it back to her childhood. I don't know if you'd like to share that, but that really opened my eyes as somebody who was coming in to try to reinvigorate, like, I guess, like, the process of these types of meetups and how we're connecting with with new. And and it really has shaped what I wanna do with education, what I wanna do with meetups. It shaped my entire team because it wasn't my identity. Right? It was a it was it was a part of what I've done and loved. But like Brian said at the beginning, I spent a lot of time in just in the tech world. Right? Deep in technology and fun and cool in building product. And so to really get that put back on me, like, no. No. No. On the people. This is their identity, who they are, and it will rise we'll all rise the wave and and together. You know? So it was a great that's how I think about community now. It shaped my entire, like, strategic thinking. Yeah. Yeah. You know, something I would add too about, in particular, thinking about the post COVID challenges of the in person events. I think one of the biggest shifts that I've noticed having run-in person meetups Originally, the first one I ran was in Fort Collins, Colorado, which is a very tech focused town. And then I moved to where I live now is North Of Austin, but it's, like, forty five minutes north. I was going to WordPress meetups in Austin. I'm like, no. I don't wanna do that. I I don't wanna drive that far. So I was like, I'm gonna run it in my town, but it's a very small town. So then it's like, okay. Who's gonna show up? What is that gonna be look like? And so we did that around until COVID time. And, like, some of the challenges I've seen in The US at least with getting them back up, I think, is we have hit a point now where it's not enough to just put it on Meetup, like meetup.com, and expect people will show up. Like, you might get one or two. But our even our event, which is virtual, we do a ton of marketing for the event. So I normally speak anyway, and one of my my biggest like, when at at the end of any podcast interview or whatever, they're like, what do you wanna promote? And I'm I run a free meetup. You can go find the information and come. Like, I'm telling people about it. We also have a whole email opt in. So because it's on Zoom, people can, when they register, check a box and say, yes. I wanna join your email list. And if they check that box, then they get the emails including, like, a twenty four hour reminder. The vast majority of people actually register for the webinars when the twenty four hour reminder goes out. Like, we put it on our meetup group, but I also at the first Monday of every month, I I send out, like, a you can contact members through meetup.com, and it will send an email to whoever's opted into that. And it's just that don't forget to register for this month's thing, and it has, like, a blurb about the two that are gonna be happening and, like, a thank you to the sponsors. And, like, that also gets a lot of people to register. Because I don't think people are going to meetup.com as much and, like, looking actively. And if they're in a lot of groups, they might be getting a lot of this meetup was scheduled. This meetup was scheduled emails and kind of ignoring them. And I feel like you actually have to be out there sharing your event, telling people to come, doing all those marketing things that you do for your business. It's not one of those just I started it, and they'll show up kind of deals. And especially if you're in a community that doesn't have a lot of people who identify as WordPress. Right? Like, all of us who have been doing it for a long time, like, this is our identity. There but there are probably plenty of people what? 43% of website owners in your town probably use WordPress and might be interested in coming to your meetup, but they wouldn't think to go look for that. And so you have to find other ways. Like, can you reach them to your chamber of commerce? Or what are other ways that you can connect with people or through a local college or university, like the web development students? Where and, like, that's the thing we've like, we got our Meetup approved for continuing ed credits through an accessibility association that has a certification. And so now they help promote our meet the WordPress Meetup through that accessibility association because it's right? So, like, trying to figure out what are other ways that you can promote it beyond just meetup.com is really helpful. It's. interesting too because the right now, I feel like it's it is I think Mary said this earlier, like, or someone else that, like, we can do socials, and we love the socials because we get together and all you're doing is hanging out. But one thing I've noticed and is that we've gotten away from that I know will just absolutely bring people out so everyone can do this experiment and come back and see if it worked or not. But bringing the happiness bar back so where all you do is. get together and bring your laptops and work on what you're working on. So Woo and WordPress is like the perfect opportunity, and most of us who run these meetups can absolutely probably answer most of the questions, and we all know that most of the people who do show up are more so beginners. I will say I'm not one of those that will answer all the questions, but I know the people who can and will have them show up to my meetups. But that is something that's been on my mind to implement, and to actually start to bring back was it's not so much learning, like having a session where we're all learning a specific how to, but actually like just bring your laptop, let's just co work, and whenever your questions come up, ask and help each other. So I'm going to start doing that. Report back if anyone does as well. I'm curious. I know it's really successful in Albuquerque. There's an Albuquerque meetup that. the woman doing for years, and she and it's it's a happiness bar. Come come with any of your problems that you have, and I'm here to help. And she just does it as an open office hour, and she always. has people coming. Yeah. That's. why I that's really, I think, why we even if there's moments where it seems like there's, like, a lull in our office hours online, even in Slack, I think there's a just that have that, like, little moment of an hour where everybody's, like, has each other's attention or has somebody's attention, I think that really makes such a huge difference to feel like you have that one on one connection, and somebody to just hear you, really. So even if you don't figure out the thing at that moment, there's the opportunity to reach out and and use that, I think, the multiplicity, if you will, of the network to find the person who does, who can actually answer that. And I would say that also, we call this, like, networking that isn't gross. So that feeling of making sure that it's not quid pro quo, that you're not just trying to to get something from somebody. How are you also giving back? And so that I think you guys have touched on it a little bit, but I would be curious what you found successful in terms of kind of expanding from just, you know, developers or somebody who's working directly on the product website, store to, you know, have making sure that the merchant who might have hired developers is included, to have somebody who is maybe, you know, more looking from the partnership perspective. How how have you expanded those kinds of relationships successfully, and what do you suggest people do? I'm not sure if I'm answering this exactly, but one thing that we've done is just being around and meeting people and and being, I guess, to some degree, social butterfly is you start to discover some really cool sites that were built with Woo. And so what I've done in the past is brought them in to a WOO meetup and actually have them showcase the site. So something super cool, it's Phoenix's version of of iHeartNY or iHeartLA, you know, is is state forty eight. And it's because we're the last of the 48, and it's this company that just exploded overnight. And it's the Arizona shape, and it says state forty eight inside there. And it was just this overnight love success that, you know, Arizona finally having something to identify with, and it was built with Woo. And I met the guy who actually built the site for them. The founder of the company was friends with him, and he built the site. So we're like, oh my god. We're gonna showcase it. So and it went really well. And then, sadly, they moved to Shopify. But after a while but that that is yeah. But that was something I we found that was, like, super cool was, like, this showcase. Like like, okay. We we we want people to use WordPress, and Woo is amazing. And look at this. Look how, like, how this looks. Like like, you know, because we're talking, like, show and tell, and we're trying to, like, gain you know, it's evangelism to a degree. And so we're like, this look how easy this and simple this is, and everyone loves this brand. So that that was one thing that we did with our meetups was to, like it it so not exactly our our company's partnership per se, but our community's partnership for sure. I've found that panel discussions like this are actually very helpful way to pull people in because there are a lot of people who might be attending your events who have impostor syndrome or have never spoken before, and the idea of putting together a whole presentation with slides or whatever is overwhelming to them. But if you recognize just from their comments or their questions or side conversations that they have things to share, then putting together a panel discussion with a couple of people from similar perspectives or maybe different perspectives on a a specific topic can be really helpful because they won't feel I found like a lot of people would be like, I would never speak. When I reach out to them, I'm like, I'd really like you to come be on a panel. They're like, oh, okay. That doesn't sound as scary because all they have to do is be prepared to answer, like, five questions and knowing that other people are gonna talk to you. And then it's like a way for them to dip their toe in, and then eventually, like, sometimes those people are wait, oh, I could actually put together a presentation. So that's maybe a a way to pull in more merchants or less technical people as well. Mhmm. So I think that also kind of folds in. So because you mentioned you mentioned kind of a a situation of churn that happened. Right? Potentially, that somebody has gone to a different platform. But, you know, the opportunity to, I think, just exemplify good work is whether, you know, and to maybe seize on some of those marketing moments. Or like you said, if there's one person that maybe is uncertain, but if they do have one valuable thing to offer to give them the opportunity to speak on that, even if they aren't directly representing your brand, where the point is that community reaches a lot farther than just exactly what we're working on because we never know when that, you know, impact or those relationships are gonna come, you know, back to us at a different time. So I think everything that you guys have mentioned so far is is really valuable. From the kind of a a per perspective of churn, I think I guess, have you had any saving moments where you've been like, hey. I know you're thinking about leaving, or I think you're you know, maybe you're considering a different platform, or maybe you don't wanna keep coming back to this event. What has kept people or made them come back, really? To an event or to the platform, Honestly, Yeah. both. That would be a different question. Like, for I think from a for more of, like, a business networking perspective, if you have somebody who is like, I'm not getting what I want. So I'd be curious from from that business perspective as well as keeping them involved in an event even if they have chosen to move on from the platform. It's a good question. And? I I mean, I I guess, like, I've been looking into this for for a while just with regards to word camps themselves. And so I'll speak more to a at a higher level just regarding, like, word camps and specifically flagships. I think that when when we see when we want to attract new or we start to see people churning and not and not returning, I really do question what I've learned through this community is, you know, inside the inside baseball versus outside, and what are we promoting and presenting, and how are we presenting ourselves externally. The how we present ourselves outside of this of our world is very important, and what we're bringing in new at every event. And so for individual flagships, what is the hook? What is new? And what are we teaching and learning for folks that aren't necessarily WordPress first? And I think that that's a very important thing to do. And we can lean in not just to open source, but, like, the freedoms of WordPress. So if I think about, WooCommerce and and the shift over to Shopify, well, me people go into Shopify probably because, you know, Shopify makes these decisions for them. And in WooCommerce, like, you are you are making these decisions, and there's something very empowering there. And sometimes we are telling the wrong story. And story is important for events. Narrative is important for events, and we need to equip a lot of the folks that are attending as well as the folks that are presenting with what type of narrative can land to specific audiences and ensure that content and ensure that the community is represented, beyond just the folks who have returned or the folks who know. Like, when we think about what is being presented out and how we can level them up or level certain speakers up, not just not just, like, hitting very deep in the technical side. That has a place, absolutely. But, also, there are places for programs and places that are in the ecosystem or in the vicinity of that Mhmm. that have placed. And I think we need to do a lot more effort marketing that effectively. Right? I I think knowing who your audience is is really important. I think not trying to be everything to everyone is really important. So that was a a big point of conversation with, can we start the WordPress accessibility meetup five years ago? Because people were like, well, why don't you just go to, like, your local like, go down to the Austin meetup. And I was like, well, there's a handful of accessibility folks I can learn from in Austin, not a ton. But also, like, not every talk is gonna accessibility, and I want it to be very narrow in niche. And I think that's where we've also seen some of these other communities like WP Campus is a really great example, because the challenges that higher ed has with using WordPress is very unique and specific to them that maybe don't apply to ecommerce store owners or, like, a mental health therapist who happens to have a brochure website built with WordPress. Right? And so I think if you are running an event or planning to start an event, it is really important to know who are your target attendees and then identifying the content and stay true to that. I think it is sometimes okay. Like, I know we've had people who came to one of our meetups, and they were just like, nope. Not for me. And they didn't come back, and that's okay. Right? I think it only becomes a problem if most people don't come back. But if you see, like, this regular thing, like, some churn is normal. And and also there'll be seasonalities. Like, I don't ever expect everyone to come to every first Thursday meetup. Right? Like, I'm just hoping if they come to, like, half or more in a year, that means I probably did a good job with my content. But, you know, some people are gonna catch the replay and watch the video later on YouTube. Like, they're not gonna show up live because they had meetings or whatever, so I think that's okay. But really knowing who you're targeting and creating that content and then having a way for them to stay connected. You know, like I mentioned, like, have a group where people can connect in between meetups, or a Slack channel or something like that where they can have conversations is really helpful. And that applies equally to in person events. You know, maybe you have some way to talk and just chat in between your in person monthly hangout at a brewery. Yeah. And I I think I come back to also the emotions and the feelings surrounding the platforms, and and I think there's, like, two parts to it. You know? There's the whole you can't you you gotta you gotta put that oxygen mask on first before you put it on your child. And I think right now in our community, going back to identity, people have WordPress tattooed on their bodies, you know, like this is this is an identity. This is absolutely an identity. It still is. And that's, I think, lot of the reasons why, a lot of the community are are struggling right now. And so there's a little bit, I think, like, for instance, with our flagship events is, like, I wanna go to as many as I possibly can, but I think I'm also the exception. And so I can't look at it, like, through my POV. I gotta look at it through, one, the community that already exists here and how do they feel? And I still come back to we every decision we make is based on feelings. It's not based on spreadsheets and data. Sure. Those that data affects our feelings, and our feelings are what drive our decisions. And so how does the community feel? And do are we feeling better? Are we feeling good if that's the case? There's so much that goes into what causes the better and the the gooder feelings that we can all go into some other conversation. But when that's the case, then, like I said before, when you have a strong team, it attracts people that wanna stay and be part of your your meetups. When you have this strong strong community that throughout the twenty teens was just infectious and attracting people who was like, I wanna use WordPress because look at all these amazing humans. And I think that that there's that's not lost. I think there's still room and space for that, that if if we, as people who use WordPress as agencies and builders that build with Woo, begin to have I'm, like, trying to think of the best way to put this. Like, feel better around the project, then it's gonna start to attract more too that comes back to the flagship events and our meetups because there's hype. There's some, like, really good spice around it, you know, like, that good spice that just tastes so good. I hope all where everything I'm saying makes sense. Yeah. Hello, I. do think you have to think about ROI, though. Like, you can't miss that, especially for new people who don't have that community connection yet. Because if you think about either they're taking time out of their weekend or their evening when they could be with their partner or their kids or their friends or their dog or whatever, or they're literally like mine, it's 10AM on a weekday. Like, right now, who's here? What is the value that they're going to get that they're not getting by doing whatever their actual job is, which is not attending events? Right? And so I think you have to have whether that's the content or being able to say, like, you will build relationships that will drive your business forward. Like, if we're typically, anyone who attends any of our events is a business person. And so there has to be a business connection there, and that has to be clearly communicated. In particular, if there is a travel expense associated, be I mean, that's a thing. Like, I would love to go to all the flagship events, but I can't justify the cost. You know? And I had to, like, look at all of them and be like, nope. I can't like, from a business perspective, I can't justify it. And and then but then even, like, local meetups, if you're asking somebody who's kind of new to the community to take an hour or two out of their workday, in the back of their head, what they're thinking is, I won't be doing x y z that's on my to do list for my job. And so I think, like, really being clear about who your audience is and what they're going to get out of it is super important. I'm going to ask one last question, and that does actually piggyback off of that is how much do you think that incentives really help to progress and and draw people in? And if so, what kind of incentives? And then we'll kick it to q and a after that. We talking pizza? Maybe? Maybe it's pizza. Maybe it's a discount code. Maybe it's swag. Maybe what what have you found that people really gravitate towards? What do you guys gravitate towards? I would love that. Well, I don't think I've for the last few WordCamps, the only swag I've brought back is if they have a toy I can give my kids. I don't otherwise take any swag. I bring things. that look like toys. But, I so to me, like, swag is like meh. Like, Mhmm. I don't I don't it's not a motivation to go. I I think for me, personally, you know, if I were to go, it would either be because there's someone do you like that? I go frequently to the VIP partner events when they have them down here, like, South By Southwest and other stuff. And it's usually for networking or because I wanna keep continue my relationship with VIP or, like, because there'll be other VIP, like, VIP customers there that I'm like, oh, maybe I could get their business. Right? So it is literally that kind of motivation. I'll say, like, our meetup, I'll be honest. I think a lot of people come more because of fear of, like, the if they don't make their websites accessible, they're gonna get in trouble with the government or get sued or something. And so they are motivated by fear to come to my meetup and learn, which sounds horrible. But it's, I guess, like, so maybe ours are, like, carrot is will give you some comfort and peace of mind. I don't I don't know. But yeah. It's a great marketing spend, Amber, and I think we should all keep that. My. Your work. should just be afraid to not come to meetups. The I've noticed that what what I've seen that people really truly appreciate, and that actually affects everybody, your group, the healthiness of it, the growth of it are are, yeah, discounts, I would say, from products. Pizza incentivize people to come and that they don't even care. We I'm sure everybody's experienced this. They like you have people like, we often meet in coworking spaces, and so then someone's like, pizza? Yeah. I'm here for the meetup. And then, you know, and they're like, That's a know your audience. I think peats think that and free alcohol is very motivational for people in their twenties. yep. It's like a you your forties, you're all just like, I dinner. don't even want the carbs. So I'm not gonna eat your free pizza. Yeah. But people really appreciate when they get, like, a discount code from something. That I've seen is something that, like, keeps that the group healthy and. people coming back. But you can always have discount codes, but but that makes it worth it that they discovered the meetup or, you know, whatever it might be around that work camps. I think it's the event and the audience. I think a lot of it is depending on what the event is. But, like, if I think about larger word camps, like, reducing the friction, if that's a discount code, if that's help with travel, if what is that? But, ultimately, it's like, what's the what what what am I getting out of it? Like, what as an incentive, what is the business reason, the business justification? And that could be the networking pieces of it depending on what level you are. It could be, you know, help or support with something that that you just can't get you just can't get online or you're not you're not figuring something out, learning something tangible. I think all of these are incentives at a different in a different way and for. a different type of event. But, ultimately, too, like, someone can go if you're a speaker, I mean, this the you're you might be incentivized just because you you want to go and and be able to speak, right, and then to that feedback. So as long as we continue to try to lower the barrier, reduce that friction, be very clear on on what people are getting out of it, whether that's a business or an individual, give people their moment and reward probably, I think, even from this conversation, the idea of, like, rewarding continuity or rewarding, like, continuity around coming and being a part of it and what would that would look like. I'm unsure, but it would be a cool idea to explore of, you know, kind of just not just flagships, but just board camps or meetups and and and and how we can present that up more effectively. I love that. Thank you so much. Okay. So we're going kick it to Q and A with our last eight minutes. So Brian, do you want to take over that? Yeah. I'm gonna pull these up. Rapid fire my screen shows, a countdown, and I don't know what happens at the end of it. I'm assuming it kicks us off. So these, let me pull up these questions on the screen. I think that, we kinda covered this first one. But it says I I think we covered it, but I think Amber might have some additional thoughts. But do you have any thoughts for how you folks can support the weekly Woo Wednesday online meetup going strong week after week for over six years? This is a online Woo meetup that happens every Wednesday. I'm curious. I know we did talk a lot about it, about the content, about having panelists, about, swag and incentives. But do you have anything else that you would add to this one? And then maybe I'll just kick it to Amber because you have good online meetup experience. So not knowing I've never looked at this meetup, so they could already be doing this. But one of the big things that I was actually advising someone else on who's been trying to do a meetup with their company, but they were only having like, only their company was presenting, making sure that you have varied speakers is really important because speakers will also bring their own audience with them. And and like I mentioned, one, it's a lot of work to put together all the talks. But, like, for us internally, our goal is if we want to speak max four times a year out of the 24 meetups that we hold, like, we want to bring other people. And I think, like, when you bring a lot of different faces as speakers, then that can help bring new attendees who are also interested in it. So I def I definitely recommend that. Don't think that just because you're organizing the event, you have to present every month. Yeah. You can just be the organizer and provide tons of value by being the organizer and maybe almost never presenting at all. Like, I'll only present in a pinch because we couldn't find a speaker. Not because I I mean, I enjoy it, but also that wasn't my goal. Yeah. And then, yeah, all. the things I said before is you have you have to market it. You have to do a lot more besides putting it on meetup.com, which is unfortunate. Like, it is definitely a work, like, work. If you can have multiple organizers, like Raquel said, that is really helpful. Like our content specialist does a ton of the back end work on our Meetup so that I don't have to. But making sure you're putting it out there, sharing it in different Facebook groups, different Slack channels that might be relevant, and going outside of traditional WordPress ones. Like I mentioned, I go to accessibility places and promote ours. So maybe there's, like, an ecommerce shop Facebook group. Right? Like, for people who run online stores, Slack channel. I don't know. Finding. those and posting it there is probably a really great way to bring new people in, some of whom might use WordPress and WooCommerce, and some of who might be somewhere else but might get interested and then switch over to WooCommerce because of your meetup. And if this goes really well, I'm gonna pull up another question here from me and Meisner who says sometimes I struggle with events surrounding Woo because it's really easy to find WordPress people, Mhmm. but the people who genuinely use the platform seem to be in other places. And this is something we've seen at WooCommerce where we're showing up at non WordPress conferences. They were just at ShopTalk. I think we'll be at ShopTalk in Barcelona. These are these big ecommerce conferences where there's tons of people who use Woo, but they don't maybe identify in the same way that WordPress people can identify. So how are we thinking about, building stronger communities without identifying with the platform, but identifying with the, you know, the job that they're trying to accomplish? I think this goes a little. bit to, Go ahead. like, what the problems is. What are the problems that those merchants have that make them go to ShopTalk versus WordCamp US, let's say. Right? Like, making sure you have content that speak to better optimizing your products online, right, or how to handle sales tax. Like, whatever those things are that merchants have problems with, I think, is probably the first thing is making sure you have content that speaks to that. And there was also a big push to have a woo centered event flagship. Right, Brian? This was a few years ago. Now I don't know if it ever came to fruition. There. was there was a WUConf. Will comp. happened, like, four years in a row. The last one was in 2037. Twenty seventeen. Twenty seventeen had a baby with. me. That's a long time ago. Oh, I'm. I there. I didn't remember you. It's before I knew Amber. I I They, I so great. I loved that conference. needs to be restarted or started, and it could start with the community to be specific to Wu. It it has been it's it so it's been a challenge even, like, trying to get, yeah, interconnectivity to Wu because a lot of, from a business perspective. Because a lot of the conversations that I have had even starting up different types of marketplaces or different type of ecommerce, like, third party places, people aren't familiar with the Woo brand. And I think that Woo could have or ecommerce could have something, an entire track at any of these flagships, but it wouldn't be as powerful as standing on its own or even infiltrating other type of ecommerce spaces. That branding and and individuals as advocates for the brand and advocates for what it can do and why is is very important. But also advocating for something that's a stronger presence at all of these flagships would be great. I I really. Yeah. do think that for for example from WUConf twenty sixteen, one of the keynote speakers was this guy from All Things Barbecue, and he they sell grills. And he literally talked about their Instagram strategy, which, of course, normally, we'd like, yeah. That's not related to WordPress or WooCommerce at all. Except for if you think about it, like, that is what that is the kind of content that is going to pull a shop owner in. Mhmm. Anything that. being broader and about our content is going to be really helpful. Literally, Yeah. I was gonna say, do what Shopify is doing. We have to stop being so intially WordPress when it comes to Woo. Like, we gotta start having content. We start be like the people. Be like. everyone else around us, not just so, like, WordPress. You're, we're we're WOO. yes. I've. gotten into a corner of social media where I'm being marketed earns in very creative ways. So I thought? Why did that show up in your algo? I don't know. I was like, I'm doing something wrong. Yeah. But. You clicked on something. I can Yeah. is less. So but I think that also kind of speaks to the fact that products are everywhere. Right? Like, the the idea that there's only a specific type of channel that we need to speak to or a specific, you know, type of product that we didn't think had that, you know, the interest to be piqued elsewhere, where these strategies, like, really, really do make an impact and and speak to many different types of parts of the business, if you will, as well as well as different channels and communities. So, yeah, I'm really looking to see where we can get take all this feedback and hopefully hear more of your feedback in the audience. And we can earn comp. Thank you. Yeah. I'll be throwing that into the ether. And, yeah, I'm just so grateful to have such brilliant minds here that you guys were able to share all of your experiences. And if we wanna get in touch with you, I know the WordPress Slack, obviously, WooCommerce community Slack. If you wanna get in touch with any of us, just send us a DM at us x. We got all of your x and blue skies, etcetera. So make sure to follow all of these incredible women and Brian. Thank you. And we'll post a follow-up, to get to some of those questions we didn't get to. But, again, thank all three of you. This means a lot to us for you to join us on our live event today, and, everybody have a great day. Thank you. Thank you all. you. Thank. you. Thank Are we just signing oh, I see.